Saturday, May 03, 2008

Advice for Orthodox Converts

Far be it from me to give advice to any, since I am the chief of sinners and, in most things, the most profitable advice would be to not do what I have done. Still, at various times, in my all-too-brief experience in chilling with Orthodox converts and other sorts, I have been on the receiving end of bits of wisdom which could appropriately be directed to myself which you may find profitable as well.
  1. Don't be so "emo". For those of you not quite familiar with the popular jargon of modern youth, call to mind those roustabouts at the mall wearing tight jeans and having long hair on top of their heads and nowhere else: those people are "emo", but it's more than a fashion statement. Relax a little.
  2. Try to get over being a convert as soon as possible. That is to say, don't ever forget where you came from, but try to get over the fact that you were once not Orthodox as soon as possible. Quit defining yourself in opposition to (viz.) the satanic delusion of Protestantism and start thinking of yourself as Orthodox. Orthodoxy stands on its own without reference to any external system. For a while, you may have to stand on the crutch of opposing yourself to your past, but, seriously, defining yourself as not Protestant is not the same as apophaticism. You should eventually get over it. There's a place for polemics. Odds are, it's not your place yet. Yes, you. I mean you. You. Don't get defensive.
  3. A good proportion of male converts want to be priests. A good proportion of all converts want to be monastics. Be realistic about it, don't be a Romantic. See #1. You may be legitimately called to either, sure. That'd be great. Don't be disappointed if you aren't, don't unrealistically think you are if you aren't. EDIT: most importantly, don't go telling everyone or alluding to it, at least not until you're sure.
  4. You have nothing to offer the Church. It has plenty to offer you.
  5. Huw had a great post where he mentioned something somebody told him when he was looking for a martial arts school:
    Are these people enjoying themselves? Are they welcoming? Is there a lot of ego on the mat? Are people trying to prove something?
    My point here is that, well, I know my ego's on the mat and I'm trying to prove something. This isn't good. Are you? Should we work on this? Knowing is half the battle.
  6. Debates are poisonous to the soul, especially if you are compelled to respond to every point and win every argument. Chill a bit, especially if you're on the Internets where the records will exist forever and ever. Somebody once likened winning an argument on the internet to winning an event in the Special Olympics, which I find entirely mean-spirited: I have found in my few days on this earth that the winners of the latter are usually marvelous people from whom I could learn a lot. Not so the former by any stretch of the imagination. Let it go.
  7. This may just be me, but I don't find my conversion story that interesting, nor do I find yours that interesting. They're all the same, even the ones that are different. In the hagiographies, the conversions of the saints usually barely occupy a paragraph. There are few notable exceptions. They are generally all alike. Usually, anything longer merely indicates you're long-winded or that you're no saint. I'd rather not hear about the latter case.
  8. The Orthodox Church will not give you what you want or like or expect, it will give you a cross. There are some things you might think God would never allow happen to a Christian. They may happen. Christianity isn't a "system" that "works". There are few guarantees, and they're not the sort you'll like.
  9. NEW ADDITION: If you find that you, a recent convert of at most a couple years, are explaining theology to someone who may have been born in the Church, or, my personal favorite, who is a priest, please look back and consider what you're doing.
Well, I wasn't completely honest. A lot of these really don't apply to me except tangentially, but they were certainly deemed wise by me when I heard them. I hope you find this post to be profitable and eagerly await correction if I am being wrong-headed about anything, only please be patient with me, since I did not exactly graduate at the top of my class, as it were.
Much love in the risen Christ,
gzt

10 comments:

Huw Richardson said...

I enjoyed this post.

What's this about, though:

Christianity isn't a "system" that "works".

I think exactly the reverse... and I get that from a lot of Orthodox as well as non-Orthodox places. But maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "system" and "work"?

Mr. G. Z. T. said...

What I mean is that you don't insert inputs A, B, and C and get outputs X, Y, and Z. Well, in a certain sense, you do, but this was addressed at certain outputs: a happy family, kids who stay Christian, a decent job, warm feelings, spiritual experiences, etc. Certain outputs are guaranteed, sure: you will receive the body and blood of Christ, you will receive forgiveness of sins, etc, that's true, so what I said is not quite right.

Erik said...

Ha. Thank you kindly. Some of it's really good to hear, some probably a bit antithetical to me, but such is life. (Interesting also for a few that sort of sunk in "on their own" only to be reaffirmed a bit here.)

I should probably know, but don't. Out of curiosity, are you a convert? (not to completely ignore the second point)

Mr. G. Z. T. said...

Well, I'm interested in which ones you thought were good and which were wack, since I wrote this while I was drinking heavily at 1am (as is the case with most of my web-log entries which might be even vaguely polemical).

Erik said...

not necessarily whack so much as just not necessarily apropos to what's going on with me. I really don't have a thorough experience as yet, but few of the converts I've met fit some of your criticisms, though I won't claim to know general trends.

I suppose i wouldn't completely shake off conversion stories (though I tend to be moderately quite about mine, mostly because words don't seem to get it right) even if they are mostly the same, there is something to be said for rejoicing with the angels at the finding of the lost. (while of course maintaining healthy cautions against egoism and being stuck in the past while the world goes marching forward)

Will say, very fond of the expression "defining yourself as not Protestant is not the same as apophaticism". makes me chuckle.

(hope everything's alright by you)

Huw Richardson said...

I second that vote for a chuckle line. It's worthy of Celtic poetical satire.

123 said...

I had come up with my own list of advice for converts, too:

http://orrologion.blogspot.com/2007/01/guidelines-for-conversion.html

Erik said...

but what if people are asking you to explain theology?

I think this is largely a response to some points of yours and orrologion's, but I don't really know orrologion as well (not that I know you incredibly well) so I'm asking here.

I can fully get on board with the importance of humility and the danger of trying to "teach" or speak authoritatively, but that reducing to "don't speak" or orrologion's "No one cares what you think, and neither should you." just doesn't seem to connect. you don't simply learn by hearing, you also learn by correction, or interaction, neither of which happen well if you insist on being completely taciturn. Even then, shouldn't room be left for "out of the mouths of babes..."?

I was hesitant to bring any of this up, but I am legitimately curious/confused because you two seem to be pretty solidly in agreement, but that consensus, in this regard, seems to be in strong tension with what I've been told/taught at my parish.

Maxim said...

Strangely, the only lists of advice for converts I've ever seen were written by converts. Shouldn't that be an addition to the list?

Anonymous said...

All converts should be required to join the choir, which should humble even the most willful "ego" within a short time.

Also, once a convert learns just hard, and how much commitment it takes, "just" to be a laymen sining in the choir, the wheat and the chafe should be quickly separated among the ranks of the wannabe chanters, monastics.